On this "Face the Nation" broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan: .U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken Home Intelligence Committee chair Rep. Mike Turner CBS Information nationwide safety correspondent David Martin and former U.S. ambassador to Russia John SullivanU.S. Rep. Veronica Escobar, Democrat of TexasWorld Meals Programme govt director Cindy McCain Click on right here to browse full transcripts of "Face …
On this “Face the Nation” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
Click on right here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I am Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: A harmful drama unfolds in Russia, as a mercenary group preventing the Ukrainians activates Vladimir Putin and his authorities. In a breathtakingly weird twist to the warfare in Ukraine this weekend, what may have been a disastrous armed battle inside Russia, the nation thought-about America’s prime nuclear adversary, got here to a sudden halt late Saturday.
The disaster has cooled for now. However what’s going to the influence of the rebellion be on Vladimir Putin’s already weakened maintain over a rustic struggling in its warfare in opposition to Ukraine?
Right here in Washington, intelligence companies have been quietly monitoring the escalating tensions between the Wagner mercenary group and the Putin authorities for a while and spent the weekend nervously watching occasions in Russia unfold.
We’ll hear from Secretary of State Antony Blinken and the top of the Home Intelligence Committee, Mike Turner.
And one 12 months after the top of Roe v. Wade, the march to ban abortion in some states continues.
(Start VT)
MIKE PENCE (R-Presidential Candidate): We’ll by no means relaxation and by no means relent till we restore the sanctity of life to the middle of American regulation in each state within the land.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: As do efforts to inspire voters to struggle for the correct to decide on an abortion.
(Start VT)
JOE BIDEN (President of america): The court docket was betting that each one of us would stay silent. Effectively, we’re not. We won’t stay silent.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll speak with Biden marketing campaign surrogate and Texas Congresswoman Veronica Escobar.
Lastly, the brand new head of the United Nations World Meals Program, Cindy McCain, joins us to speak about the place the starvation disaster is worst and why we have to do extra.
It is all simply forward on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
There’s a lot we do not know but concerning the motivations behind and the implications following Wagner Group chief Yevgeny Prigozhin’s actions in Russia this weekend. What we do learn about what one senior administration official calls a really weird episode is that there appears to be a pause, not less than for now, resulting from a truce struck between Vladimir Putin and Prigozhin that was brokered by the president of Belarus, a Putin ally.
The phrases of that deal are nonetheless rising. However even after Prigozhin abruptly stopped his march to Moscow yesterday, there stays trepidation concerning the dangers forward on this unpredictable path for Russia, which holds the world’s largest nuclear arsenal.
CBS Information correspondent Ian Lee stories from Dnipro, Ukraine.
(Start VT)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
IAN LEE (voice-over): Hardly ever do failed mutineers obtain a heroes’ departure.
CROWD: Wagner!
IAN LEE: However residents cheered Wagner troopers as they left the Russian metropolis of Rostov late final evening.
“Come again alive and handle your self,” shouted folks within the crowd. The mercenary group’s chief, Yevgeny Prigozhin, smiled and posed for selfies on his means out.
Some greeted the returning Russian authorities much less warmly, with cheers and insults. For twenty-four hours, the world watched Wagner forces inch nearer to Moscow. Updates of their advance splashed throughout social media. The Russian navy secured the capital, troopers deployed on the streets, and heavy gear ripped up roads resulting in the town.
Prigozhin launched his mutiny after accusing the Russian navy of killing his males in Ukraine with a missile strike, a declare Russian protection officers deny. His males shortly seized Rostov, dwelling of Russia’s southern navy headquarters, earlier than advancing towards Moscow.
On Russian state TV, President Vladimir Putin accused Prigozhin of treason, although he by no means
talked about his identify, and known as for unity.
(PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
IAN LEE: “We’ll defend our folks and nation from any threats, together with inner betrayal,” mentioned Putin, “and what we’re dealing with is exactly betrayal.”
And with Wagner troops simply 124 miles from Moscow, the Kremlin spokesman introduced a deal. Wagner troops can be pardoned and returned to their bases, prison fees in opposition to Prigozhin can be dropped, and he’d go into exile in Belarus, whose chief brokered the settlement.
This morning, an uneasy calm settled on Moscow. Life in Rostov additionally returned to regular. Putin’s maintain on energy survived, battered and bruised, however not all could also be forgiven. In a 2018 interview, Putin advised a state TV reporter there’s one factor he can by no means forgive, betrayal, he mentioned.
(Finish VT)
IAN LEE: Russia continued airstrikes on a number of cities right here in Ukraine, whereas Kyiv took benefit of the chaos to launch main assaults.
However it’ll take time to see what impact this mutiny has on the warfare — Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ian Lee in Ukraine, thanks.
Secretary of State Antony Blinken is without doubt one of the many prime Biden administration officers who has been monitoring the occasions of the final two days.
And he joins us from the State Division.
Good morning to you, Mr. Secretary.
ANTONY BLINKEN (U.S. Secretary of State): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you able to inform us who within the Biden administration has been in contact with Russian management?
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: Effectively, I instructed my very own crew, on the president’s behest, to have interaction with the Russians, at the beginning, to ensure that they understood their obligations, when it comes to defending our personal personnel, making certain their security and well-being, in addition to any Americans in Russia.
So, quite a few folks have engaged to ensure that the Russians obtained that message.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is the U.S. prepared for additional unrest in Russia and the situation that Vladimir Putin doesn’t stay in energy?
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: Margaret, that is an unfolding story.
And I feel we’re within the midst of a shifting image. We’ve not seen — we have not seen the final act. We’re watching it very intently and thoroughly.
However simply step again for a second and put this in — in context. Sixteen months in the past, Russian forces have been on the doorstep of Kyiv in Ukraine, pondering they’d take the town in a matter of days, pondering they might erase Ukraine from the map as an unbiased nation.
Now, over this weekend, they’ve needed to defend Moscow, Russia’s capital, in opposition to mercenaries of Putin’s personal making. Prigozhin himself on this total incident has raised profound questions concerning the very premises for Russia’s aggression in opposition to Ukraine within the first place, saying that Ukraine or NATO didn’t pose a menace to Russia, which is a part of Putin’s narrative.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: And it was a direct problem to Putin’s authority.
So this raises profound questions. It — it exhibits actual cracks. We will not speculate or know precisely the place that is going to go. We do know that Putin has much more to reply for within the — within the weeks and months forward.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However is the U.S. ready for the potential of the autumn of the Putin authorities? And is their nuclear stockpile, the biggest on the earth, safe?
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: We at all times put together for each contingency.
When it comes to what occurs in Russia, it is an inner matter for the Russians to determine. After all, once we’re coping with a serious energy, and particularly a serious energy that has nuclear weapons, that is one thing that is of concern, one thing we’re very targeted on.
We’ve not seen any change in Russia’s nuclear posture. There hasn’t been any change in ours, however it’s one thing we’ll watch very, very rigorously.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Vladimir Putin is showing on tv this morning. However it seems to have been prerecorded.
Have you learnt the whereabouts of Vladimir Putin proper now? Is he in Moscow?
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: I do not need to — I do not need to speculate on that or what
info that we now have.
Once more, we’re watching that — that rigorously. I feel one of many issues this — this tells you is that we nonetheless do not — haven’t got finality when it comes to what was truly agreed between Prigozhin and Putin. I think that we’ll be taught extra within the days and weeks forward about what — what deal they struck.
The president introduced collectively not solely the nationwide safety Cupboard yesterday. He introduced collectively the leaders of our key allies and companions. He instructed all of us to do the identical. Now we have super unity of goal and unity of motion in terms of supporting Ukraine. And that is the place our focus is.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However, as you simply mentioned, Prigozhin drew into query the very premise for Vladimir Putin’s warfare.
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: That is proper.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, do the Wagner fighters return to the struggle in Ukraine? Do we all know?
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: Too quickly to inform what is going on to occur to the Wagner forces, whether or not they return to the struggle.
I imply, it was extraordinary that they have been shifting out of Ukraine and into Russia. However it’s too quickly to inform whether or not they’re going to return into the struggle as Wagner, whether or not they get built-in into common Russian forces, what this implies for Wagner in different components of the world.
I imply, take note…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: … each Putin and Prigozhin are chargeable for committing horrible acts in Ukraine in opposition to Ukrainian civilians.
But in addition, within the case of Wagner, in nation after nation in Africa, wherever Wagner is, dying and destruction and exploitation comply with.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: However all of that is prone to unroll within the within the coming days, within the coming weeks.
To the extent that it presents an actual distraction for — for Putin, and for Russian authorities, that
they’ve to take a look at — form of thoughts their rear, whilst they’re attempting to take care of the counteroffensive in Ukraine, I feel that creates even higher openings for the Ukrainians to do properly on the bottom.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, as you simply indicated, Yevgeny Prigozhin has a footprint that goes from Africa to Syria to Ukraine. Do you will have any concept the place he’s proper now?
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: Once more, I am unable to get into what we all know or do not know by means of — by means of — by means of intelligence. It is one thing that we’re taking a look at and that we’re monitoring.
MARGARET BRENNAN: One of many issues Prigozhin did was instantly undermine the Russian navy management.
Do we all know who’s accountable for the Russian navy proper now? And the way may Vladimir Putin conform to any modifications within the management of his navy and nonetheless appear to be he is in cost?
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: Now, these are — these are nice questions. And I feel we’ll get the solutions within the — within the days and weeks forward. It is too quickly to say with any — any certainty what the ultimate chapter on this explicit e-book goes to be. The — the rising storm of Prigozhin inside Russia is one thing that many individuals have seen over — over months now, direct challenges to the management, to the navy management, highly effective criticism of Russia’s conduct of its aggression in opposition to Ukraine, and now questioning the very premises of the — the warfare, Prigozhin himself saying that Ukraine and NATO didn’t pose a menace to Russia, which has…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: … as you understand, been a part of Putin’s narrative.
These create extra cracks within the Russian facade. And people cracks have been already profound economically, militarily, its standing on the earth. All of these issues have been dramatically diminished by Putin’s aggression in opposition to Ukraine. He is managed to carry Europe collectively. He is managed to carry NATO collectively. He is managed to get Europe to maneuver off of Russian vitality.
He is managed to alienate Ukrainians and unite Ukraine on the similar time. So, throughout the board, this has been a strategic failure. Now, you introduce into that profound inner divisions, and there are many questions he will need to reply within the weeks forward.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is there a risk of civil warfare?
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: I do not need to speculate on that. It — these are essentially inner issues for the Russians to — to determine. It isn’t our place to try this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Will President Biden attain out on to Vladimir Putin? Has the CIA
director reached out to Russian intelligence?
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: Margaret, I am not going to get into any diplomatic contacts that we — we could have or have had.
I can let you know that, on my instruction, on the president’s instruction, we had some engagement with the Russians over the weekend to ensure they understood their obligations in terms of looking for the security and safety of our personnel in Russia. Crucial that we try this, and we did that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I need to ask you about Beijing.
I used to be there with you earlier this week.
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: Certain.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And I listened to you decide each single considered one of your phrases very rigorously. After which, on our means dwelling, President Biden known as Xi Jinping a dictator with financial issues who did not know what his personal navy was doing by flying the spy balloon over america.
How a lot did that damage the work you probably did?
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: Margaret, one of many issues that I feel you — you heard me say throughout the journey and after the journey is that the principle goal was to carry some higher stability to the connection.
However one of many issues that I mentioned to Chinese language counterparts throughout this journey was that we’re going to proceed to do issues and say issues that you do not like, simply as you are little question going to proceed to do and say issues that we do not like. And for those who take a look at what comes out of the Chinese language Overseas Ministry…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you saying that was a strategic comment?
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: … each day, you will hear that.
The — the president at all times speaks candidly. He speaks instantly. He speaks clearly, and he speaks for all of us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You additionally mentioned that Chinese language officers assured you they will not present authorized help to Russia, however that Chinese language corporations are.
In response to U.S. Treasury, Chinese language corporations have additionally achieved enterprise with the Wagner
group. Have you ever reached out to the Chinese language about attempting to gauge what is occurring on the bottom inside Russia now?
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: Once more, I am unable to get into any diplomatic contacts that we could or could not have had.
However you are precisely proper that, in terms of the go to, the Chinese language did reiterate to us, in addition to to many different nations, that they haven’t and won’t present deadly navy help to Russia to be used in Ukraine. I additionally raised the issues that you simply mentioned about Chinese language corporations offering that form of assist and pressed them to be vigilant about that.
I am positive they’re making their — their very own assessments about what’s occurred inside Russia in latest days.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Blinken, thanks to your time this morning.
SECRETARY ANTONY BLINKEN: Thanks, Margaret. Good to be with you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We flip now to the chairman of the Home Intelligence Committee, Republican Congressman Mike Turner of Ohio. He joins us from Dayton.
Good morning to you.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER (R-Ohio): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I perceive prime congressional leaders, your self included, have been briefed a number of instances in latest days by the administration in regard to the danger posed by the Wagner group.
Final 12 months, U.S. intelligence had extraordinary element, these are the phrases, the top of U.S. intelligence, about Putin’s plans to invade Ukraine. I’m wondering how you’ll describe the intelligence the U.S. had about this march on Moscow?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Certain.
Effectively, the intelligence group was very a lot conscious of that the battle between Prigozhin and Putin was inevitable. And, even from public sources, which you’ve got seen Prigozhin for months has put out movies vital of the Russian authorities, vital of Putin.
Putin has allowed this. And, because the secretary mentioned, these movies themselves even included criticizing Putin’s very premise of the warfare, that it was not began by NATO, that there have been not Nazis in Ukraine.
After which getting into into Moscow — getting into into Russia itself and taking their convoy to Moscow, that actually exhibits to the essential situation of whether or not or not Putin controls his navy. For any authorities to have stability, they’ve to regulate their navy. Clearly Prigozhin, with a view to make it that distance, has to have accomplices.
, the place was the air pressure? The place was the Russian air pressure in stopping this? That is going to be a problem that — that Putin goes to need to take care of each internationally and domestically, is his authorities, as an authoritarian authorities relies upon, on its assertion of energy, pressure, so as to have the ability to include — to proceed to wield energy, and that actually goes to be a problem.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Was Vladimir Putin himself conscious of the potential of this rebellion?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Effectively, I am unable to go into what our intelligence was.
However I can let you know this. These movies that he was permitting Prigozhin to place — put out have been public. They have been distributed all over the world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Putin actually was conscious of them as a result of he was permitting them, the content material of them, the place they not solely criticized Putin and the Russian authorities and known as for the removing of the minister of protection.
In the end, as you understand, this weekend, Prigozhin’s assertion was removing of the president himself. So, Vladimir Putin actually had a lot of public discover that Prigozhin was — was a — was a critic and was threatening the — the federal government, and now in the end took this navy motion into Russia itself.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However that raises the query of whether or not this was a strategic transfer by Prigozhin or simply form of of venture and a possibility he seized.
Do we now have any perception?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Effectively, you understand, he is a navy man.
Bear in mind, this is sort of a 12-hour journey from Ukraine to Moscow, and he obtained inside two hours of Moscow. Now, being a navy man, he understands the logistics and actually the — the help that he will want to try this. This isn’t a weekend journey he is taking, taking his convoy, and his navy convoy, as much as Moscow.
There’s quite a few accomplices, together with, as we noticed, a number of the Russian folks on the border with Ukraine who clearly assist the Wagner group, in distinction to their assist for the Russian authorities. That is one thing that may have needed to been deliberate for a major
period of time to be executed within the method by which it was,
MARGARET BRENNAN: There was a report final month that Prigozhin had provided in January to assist Ukraine assault the Russian navy by sharing info on troop positions that he had.
Is that this in any means useful, what has simply occurred, to ending the warfare in Ukraine? Like, the place is Prigozhin’s curiosity?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Proper.
So this actually does damage — damage Putin, and never solely simply politically and in his management in Russia and his presidency, however in his efforts to proceed the warfare in Ukraine. , I feel, clearly, at first, there’s going to be an preliminary improve of exercise from Russia in opposition to Ukraine.
However as a result of he went — Putin himself went on a nationwide TV to reply to Prigozhin, and Prigozhin mentioned that your authorities has lied to you, this isn’t a warfare that NATO began, there are not any Nazis in Ukraine, taking down the very premise makes it way more tough for Putin to proceed to show to the Russian folks and say, we should always proceed to ship folks to die on this warfare that — for which Prigozhin himself has mentioned to the Russian folks, the premise is a lie.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There was so much that Secretary Blinken mentioned he couldn’t reply throughout our interview. Is that as a result of U.S. intelligence doesn’t know or as a result of it is labeled?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Effectively, you understand, I am unable to reply that both. However you may — you may assume actually that we now have been very targeted on Russia and Ukraine.
And that is an space the place Ukraine’s successes has been a lead to half due to the successes of the intelligence group. So we have been very, very targeted on this. I feel that as we — as we go ahead, that is going to be much more vital because it face — as we face the threats each for Ukraine and for america as to what is going on to occur to Putin and Russia subsequent.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Chairman, please stick with us.
Now we have to take a break. We’ll be proper again in a single minute with extra of our dialog.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re again with Home Intelligence Committee Chair Mike Turner.
I need to speak a bit about China right here as properly, sir. However let me simply button up, what — how would you outline the connection between China and Vladimir Putin proper now?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Proper.
So, President Xi has obtained to be very involved proper now, as a result of, as you understand, he went to Moscow, stood subsequent to Putin and mentioned, you understand, “We’re collectively,” he and Vladimir Putin, are bringing about change that hasn’t occurred for 100 years.
And, after all, that’s the march of authoritarianism in opposition to democracy that we gained in World Battle Two that they are now rising up in opposition to. However now he is standing subsequent to a man who cannot even management his — his personal — his personal navy.
Bear in mind, Putin, in his nationwide deal with mentioned that these people are going to have inevitable punishment. After which, ultimately, Prigozhin will get a trip in — in Belarus, and his troops are actually going to signal contracts. It sounds extra like paperwork than a KGB agent, than doing inevitable punishment.
Xi, in seeing that with Putin, has obtained to grasp that — that Putin’s stature on the earth has diminished. That diminishes President Xi. And, actually as Putin seems weakened, actually not having the ability to management his — his navy and being a robust nuclear energy, President Xi must be anxious concerning the stability of Russia itself.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be watching that.
, final Friday, the — or this previous Friday — sorry. I am again from Beijing, and my time-frame’s all screwed up right here.
(LAUGHTER)
MARGARET BRENNAN: However the director of nationwide intelligence launched this declassified abstract of the findings in regard to hyperlinks between the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the origin of the COVID pandemic.
It says a number of researchers at that institute have been sick in 2019 with signs per, however not diagnostic of COVID. Why is it so inconclusive nonetheless?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Effectively, and that is the issue, actually, what — what the director of nationwide intelligence has achieved, Director Haines.
We handed a regulation saying, declassify the knowledge that you’ve got concerning the COVID and Wuhan lab’s actions. What they did is that they mainly went and — and did a paper on what they consider concerning the intelligence they’ve checked out. I’ll give an instance of this.We have requested to open the curtain and launch the intelligence, and so they went backstage, learn these things, and got here out and mentioned, properly, that is what we give it some thought.
This isn’t adequate. And, actually, that is going to be — arrange between a battle between
Congress and the director of nationwide intelligence to make sure that — that the regulation that was handed unanimously, each the Senate and the Home and signed by the president, is complied with, but in addition the American public get the solutions they deserve.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So there was a labeled annex to this, although, that was not launched, I’d assume that you’ve got learn that.
Is that…
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: No, truly, we simply obtained this late, late Friday, so I have never had entry to it in a labeled setting.
However even releasing a labeled annex goes in opposition to what the regulation says. The regulation says declassify, not give us extra labeled info. I imply, my committee has already seen a major quantity of this intelligence. Giving my committee extra intelligence would not give it to the American public, and that is what the declassification regulation was about.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However the — the report says that it particulars two companies say it was a lab accident. CIA cannot decide. The Nationwide Intelligence Council and 4 different companies say almost definitely attributable to pure publicity.
Do you consider that there truly is a definitive conclusion that the federal government’s not releasing?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: So, I — I’ve seen, for instance, the labeled annex to the report that President Biden requested the intelligence group gave.
What you simply learn have been extra conclusions by the intelligence group.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Within the report that was given to the President, the 90-day-or-so report, they’ve — they’ve info in that report that contradicts, I consider, the impressions which are given in — in these statements by the Intelligence Committee.
We wish the intelligence launched, not their opinion concerning the intelligence. If we needed their opinion, we might have requested for it. We handed a regulation saying, declassify it. It is the regulation of the land. Launch this so the American public and see it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Consultants on the market locally moreover the intelligence group…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: … want to try this and assist us perceive what actually occurred that resulted in thousands and thousands of individuals dying.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
Congressman, thanks to your time right this moment.
We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: If you happen to miss an episode of Face the Nation or need to watch considered one of our prolonged interviews, you’ll find all of it on CBSNews.com, or search Face the Nation on YouTube.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We might be proper again with much more Face the Nation.
Stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to FACE THE NATION.
Wagner group chief Yevgeny Prigozhin is definitely needed by the FBI right here within the U.S. for his efforts to medal within the 2016 elections.
CBS Information international correspondent Debora Patta has been monitoring the Wagner group and he or she stories this morning from Johannesburg, South Africa.
DEBORA PATTA: Yevgeny Prigozhin’s rebellion seems to have been extraordinarily properly deliberate and executed. Who would have thought considered one of Putin’s closest allies, a former convict and Kremlin caterer, would ultimately be pitted in opposition to the Russian chief.
(BEGIN VT)
DEBORA PATTA (voice over): It was throughout Russia’s first invasion of Ukraine in 2014 that Prigozhin made the leap from Putin’s shift (ph), to warlord, operating an off the books mercenary group. Wagner troopers began exhibiting up in Syria, then throughout Africa. And whereas his employed weapons deal in dying, Prigozhin makes his cash by plundering pure assets in locations just like the
mineral wealthy Central African Republic, or CAR. In change, Wagner supplies the mercenary muscle to prop up the nation’s chief, even guarding the president. What Wagner would not say is that they successfully run this nation by means of violence and a galaxy of shell corporations.
Now, this mannequin is repeated throughout Africa, permitting Prigozhin to evade sanctions and rake in billions to fund what the U.S. has known as a transnational prison group, in addition to his non-public military in Ukraine.
Till lately, Prigozhin vigorously denied any hyperlinks to Wagner, however stepped out of the shadows final 12 months, recruiting prisoners from Russian penal colonies in change for pardon. And at salaries far larger than any common Kremlin troopers. And he actually loved the notoriety, filming himself strutting across the battlefield and delivering Putin his solely actual victory after months of warfare, capturing Soledar and Bakhmut at a heavy price, although, as lots of his mercenaries have been killed within the preventing.
(END VT)
DEBORA PATTA: Now, all through this warfare, Prigozhin has appeared untouchable, and has survived even after this armed riot. And he appears satisfied, Margaret, that on the very least he’ll proceed his rein in Africa, the actual Wagner cash spinner.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Debora Patta, thanks.
For extra on the state of affairs in Russia, we flip to CBS Information nationwide safety correspondent David Martin and former U.S. ambassador to Russia, now a CBS Information contributor, John Sullivan.
Good to have each of you right here.
David, let’s begin on simply what occurred on the bottom. 124 miles outdoors of Moscow. That is how far the Wagner group says they obtained. What does this inform us about Russia’s intelligence in navy?
DAVID MARTIN: Effectively, it got here as a shock to U.S. intelligence. They – they’d some warning that there was going to be a mutiny. However they have been shocked after they — Russians put up no resistance, allowed Prigozhin to enter their navy headquarters in Rostov after which ship his military unopposed north towards Moscow.
After which they have been shocked once more by how shortly a deal was made. They’d anticipated an extended, extra violent affair. And that is why folks just like the nationwide safety adviser, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Workers, canceled their journey plans, as a result of there was the hazard that this mutiny may mushroom right into a civil warfare. And that brings up all kinds of issues concerning the safety of Russia’s nuclear weapons and what you be taught is that when an individual like Putin is sitting on prime of an arsenal of hundreds of nuclear weapons, his issues in a short time change into your issues.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
And, Ambassador, I imply, it is — it sounds unusual generally, that phrase catastrophic success when international coverage analysts discuss it, however are we truly in a state of affairs the place Vladimir Putin is preferable to Yevgeny Prigozhin when it comes to operating the Russian state?
JOHN SULLIVAN: Effectively, he is actually a recognized amount. He is a hardened adversary of america, however the various could possibly be worse. So, I feel the Biden administration is rightfully involved, as – as David suggests, with chaos and uncertainty in Russia with their nuclear arsenal may be very harmful, not only for america however for the world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, once we – if you take a look at the map, Rostov, the town that you simply talked about, it is a main logistics hub on that path to Moscow. Do we now have any perception but, David, into what’s occurring throughout the Russian navy proper now? Are they remaining loyal to Vladimir Putin?
DAVID MARTIN: There was no signal that any of the safety equipment round Putin had – had switched sides. They appear to hold – grasp powerful with Putin.
The – the query of why there was no Russian resistance — I imply one attainable rationalization is as a result of Putin advised them not to withstand. We will settle this as shortly and as peacefully as attainable.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ambassador, it was a shock to many when it was Belarus that introduced that they have been the brokers right here, that the president of that nation. Now that nation is just about seen as a vassal state of Russia. Vladimir Putin controls it. There are nuclear weapons that Vladimir Putin says he is placing there. Clarify this a part of the puzzle? Like, why would Yevgeny Prigozhin transfer to Belarus? Why are they immediately showing to be energy brokers?
JOHN SULLIVAN: Effectively, as – as you level out, Margaret, Lukashenko is in energy now as president due to Vladimir Putin. Vladimir Putin got here to his rescue in August 2020. It was Lukashenko who was depending on Putin. However now, take into consideration this, that is, as you notice, Belarus is a part of a union state with Russia. They’re conjoined. How dependent now could be Putin on Lukashenko? It is an — it is – it is proof of the weak spot that this reveals, what’s occurred within the final three or 4 days, the weak spot of Vladimir Putin. It isn’t simply an look of weak spot, it is precise weak spot. An individual that he has mentioned is a traitor, who has stabbed him and his nation within the again, he struck a take care of? A deal that he wanted to strike to keep away from bloodshed and chaos? What robust chief does that?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, precisely. And – and if you take a look at – I feel for thus many People who’re studying about Wagner group for the primary time, and so they simply heard Debora’s nice reporting there, the U.S. considers them a transnational prison group. Is that this just like the mafia has its personal navy? I imply how can we take into consideration this?
JOHN SULLIVAN: Effectively, Prigozhin himself spent many of the Eighties in jail as a result of he is a profession prison. Wagner operates in states in Africa and elsewhere, not as a result of they’re patriots who have been executing coverage on behalf of the Russian authorities, they’re there to get entry to gold mines, oil assets and so forth. This can be a money-making group, corrupt group, that america accurately treats as a transnational prison group.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And that is what — David, it was fascinating to right here, from each the secretary and Mike Turner, this concern of what occurs subsequent, not simply in Ukraine, however in Libya, in Syria, all through Africa. Do we now have any idea but? I imply does this change into a separate firm? Does this change into a part of the Russian navy?
DAVID MARTIN: Effectively, I by some means do not suppose that Prigozhin has gone to Belarus to reside out his days in idle exile. I do not suppose he is out of the sport. And though there’s been this take care of Vladimir Putin, who says Vladimir Putin goes to ship on the deal? I imply if I have been Prigozhin, I’d preserve my bodyguards shut and my meals taster nearer as a result of poison is considered one of Putin’s favourite devices of getting revenge.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He has a pressure of, what, 25,000 underneath his command, allegedly?
DAVID MARTIN: That is – that is what he is credited for. He was — at first of this 12 months, he was credited with 50,000. And I feel the drop from 50,000 to 25,000 is a measure of how a lot they misplaced within the – within the preventing in – in japanese Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: This was nice to have your evaluation and your reporting. Thanks, each.
JOHN SULLIVAN: Thanks, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: It is now been one 12 months for the reason that Supreme Court docket overturned Roe versus Wade, and the political dissension over abortion rights continues to develop. We have lately mentioned the subject with Republican presidential candidates on this broadcast, however right this moment we flip to Texas Congresswoman Veronica Escobar, a co-chair of President Biden’s re-election bid. And she or he joins us from El Paso.
Good morning to you, Congresswoman?
REP. VERONICA ESCOBAR (D-TX): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It has been 50 years since 1973 and that ruling. However in that point, Congress didn’t cross any protections for abortion entry. Even when Democrats managed
each homes, even when presidents have been Democrats.
We’re now at this level the place our CBS Information polling exhibits 53 % of Democrats really feel as if your get together is not doing sufficient on the problem of abortion. Why do Democrats suppose it is a profitable situation for the get together after they’ve not been in a position to ship on it for thus lengthy?
VERONICA ESCOBAR: Effectively, Margaret, the – the Home Democrats have handed the Girls’s Well being Care Safety Act. We did that each classes of Congress, the final two, once we had a majority. However as you understand, and because the American folks know, we didn’t have a large sufficient majority within the Senate. Within the Senate due to the filibuster, the Senate has not acted on defending entry and girls’s freedom to have entry to abortion care.
However it’s actually necessary that we take a look at what’s occurred since Roe v. Wade was overturned by the Republican-controlled Supreme Court docket. Now we have seen 23 million girls lose entry to reproductive well being care. We have seen 18 states enact harsh abortion bans. And we now have additionally seen each single Republican nominee specific assist for a federal nationwide abortion ban. We can’t go in that path, and that is why these upcoming elections are critically necessary.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However even when there was unified management, it wasn’t delivered on. Once you take a look at what’s occurring now, half of these polled by CBS say abortion entry has change into extra restricted over the previous 12 months, as you’ve got simply detailed.
So, we all know President Biden is taking these govt actions and orders. Why is not there extra grassroots mobilization on the state stage if the whole level of the court docket ruling was that it goes again to the states?
VERONICA ESCOBAR: Now we have seen grassroots mobilization on the state stage. We have seen states equivalent to —
MARGARET BRENNAN: You are saying you are dropping the argument, although?
VERONICA ESCOBAR: I am sorry?
MARGARET BRENNAN: However you simply detailed that state by state, in lots of locations, you are dropping that argument.
VERONICA ESCOBAR: Effectively, states are making each efforts and grassroots organizations and girls throughout the nation are working to place in protections on the state constitutional stage. However the problem that we’ll face, ought to Republicans preserve management of the Home and achieve management of the Senate or the White Home, is that we might see nationwide restrictions which are harsher and extra critical than – than what we see right this moment.
So, we have got a really – we have got an enormous problem on our arms within the sense that ladies’s reproductive freedoms proceed to be rolled again. And the one approach to win that’s by profitable
elections. Each ensuring that we flip the Home and regain management, and that we elect a large sufficient margin, a filibuster proof majority, or senators keen to raise the bulk to guard girls, and we have got to take care of the White Home.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley was lately on this program and he or she mentioned candidates aren’t telling the American folks the reality. Republicans and Democrats she places in that bucket. She mentioned, there’s not — you understand, if there’s neither the consensus nor the votes for both get together to both legalize or totally ban abortion.
Hearken to what she mentioned.
(Start VC)
NIKKI HALEY (R) 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So let’s be trustworthy with the American folks and say, let’s discover nationwide consensus. Let’s agree on, you understand, eliminating late-term abortions. Let’s agree on the truth that we want extra adoptions. Let’s agree on the truth that we want accessible contraception. Let’s agree on the truth that moms should not be jailed or go to – you understand, get the dying penalty for abortions.
(Finish VC)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Would not she have a degree? There are smaller points associated to abortion you’ll find consensus on?
VERONICA ESCOBAR: The nationwide consensus, Margaret, is that 80 % of People don’t agree with the overturning of Roe v. Wade. That’s —
MARGARET BRENNAN: However when it comes to what you would truly get handed in Congress?
VERONICA ESCOBAR: Effectively, we — once more, we — Democrats handed the Girls’s Well being Care Safety Act within the Home.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Within the Home. Sure, solely within the Home.
VERONICA ESCOBAR: (INAUDIBLE). And the problem within the Senate is that you simply want a brilliant majority.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
VERONICA ESCOBAR: You want 60 votes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Precisely.
VERONICA ESCOBAR: And so, proper, which is why we have to win elections this — subsequent November. And, moreover, we have got to retain the White Home as a result of there’s just one one who might be on the poll subsequent November, and that is President Biden, who has promised and dedicated to preventing for girls’s reproductive freedom. Make no mistake about it –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
VERONICA ESCOBAR: As a lot as Nikki Haley desires to speak about discovering consensus right here and there, the underside line is all these —
MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, stopping girls from being prosecuted, for instance, the dying penalty. I imply you must respect that.
VERONICA ESCOBAR: Sure, however –
MARGARET BRENNAN: I imply why not cross a regulation on that entrance?
VERONICA ESCOBAR: Can – are you able to think about that is —
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is that not value it?
VERONICA ESCOBAR: That is their – that is the place they need to enable consensus?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, she’s saying, let’s cross a regulation to forestall that on the nationwide stage.
VERONICA ESCOBAR: Effectively, I — my perspective, and I feel the overwhelming majority of People’ views, is, we wish the protections underneath Roe v. Wade restored. Eighty %. And, in truth, even 65 % –
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, 24 weeks?
VERONICA ESCOBAR: I am sorry?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Safety as much as 24 weeks of being pregnant, that is your outlined place? I do know that is what was within the safety act, however particularly that is what you might be endorsing?
VERONICA ESCOBAR: Roe v. Wade primarily protects a girls’s proper to entry abortion. And what we’re seeing in states like my very own, in Texas, the place the rollbacks have occurred and the bans are occurring, is that even in circumstances the place girls’s well being is in danger, politicians do not actually care concerning the well being of the girl.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
Congresswoman, thanks for approaching and making that case.
We’ll be again in a second.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We flip now to the worldwide starvation disaster and our dialog with the brand new govt director of the United Nations World Meals Program, Cindy McCain. She spoke to us Thursday from New York, the place she addressed the U.N. Safety Council about what she known as a spiraling starvation disaster in components of the world.
(Start VT)
CINDY MCCAIN (World Meals Program Govt Director): There are plenty of fires on the earth proper now. There’s so much happening. There’s plenty of nations which are in deep misery. Somalia being considered one of them. And so we’re unfold fairly skinny proper now. And so to have the ability to proceed the work that we do, clearly we want extra assist, however we want the world to concentrate to us additionally and ensure that folks perceive it is not only a safety disaster in Somalia, it is a humanity disaster as properly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I do know you’ve got lately misplaced some workers in Sudan the place america has pulled out due to the violence there. Are you continue to in a position to feed folks regardless of the warfare?
CINDY MCCAIN: Effectively, we by no means left Sudan. We stalled for just a little bit, we paused for a number of days as a result of, you are right, we did lose three folks there. And we needed to evacuate our different residents, our different nationals, in addition to our worldwide folks out. However we by no means left.
And so we are actually, once more, we’re again in, we’re distributing meals. Once more, reminding everybody, it is terribly harmful there proper now. So, our strategies and the way we’re doing it have been — are just a little bit totally different. However we even have requested the U.N. to please assure us a humanitarian hall for us to have the ability to work and function so we will ship our meals.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I do know the U.S. is the biggest monetary donor to the World Meals Program and the U.N., having given $7.2 billion, greater than all different donors mixed final 12 months. In the meantime, the world’s second largest financial system, China, gave $11 million. How receptive is Beijing to your requests?
CINDY MCCAIN: Effectively, I might prefer to encourage Beijing to get entangled and be part of this. We want — not solely do we want their funding, however we want their experience on many issues. Their – their expertise, close to agriculture, and the expertise close to – to local weather change may be very useful in these nations which are actually fighting drought and lack of meals, et cetera.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is the problem that the federal government desires credit score and so, subsequently, they need to do it underneath their very own flag and never by means of the worldwide system, which you characterize?
CINDY MCCAIN: I feel, to some extent, you are right on that. I feel it is also only a willingness to be part of – of working collectively as a crew worldwide. In these nations that we’re in, one company can’t do – can’t do the job. We want partnerships. And so we encourage the Chinese language and we encourage many – encourage many different nations all over the world to accomplice with us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: , within the room, if you end up attempting to pitch to the Safety Council, you’re looking at america, you have been speaking to China. You are additionally speaking to Russia along with another members. However I need to decide up particularly on the Kremlin as a result of they mentioned this previous week there have been no grounds to increase the Black Sea grain initiative. That’s the deal underneath which Russia agreed to permit grain to depart the ports of Ukraine, a rustic it’s militarily occupying. That is arguably weaponizing meals.
What is the influence if that deal goes away?
CINDY MCCAIN: Effectively, the influence is, once more, we’re brief on grain, and what does that imply? It impacts so much — a big portion of Africa. We’re additionally brief on fertilizer. Fertilizer is the opposite half of this that is form of – that is imagined to be popping out. And so, with out the fertilizer, in lots of circumstances, they are not going to have the ability to develop crops which are as massive or as productive as they could possibly be.
For all of the issues that – which are happening, I really want that we may finish this warfare in order that we may start once more to feed folks all over the world and – and in order that the Ukrainians can even feed themselves. What’s at stake right here is hunger and famine. That is what we’re taking a look at.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There’s been an uptick in migrants to america from Haiti, which is now largely managed by gangs. How do you retain the meals you might be stepping into that island nation out of the arms of criminals and into the mouths of ravenous kids?
CINDY MCCAIN: Effectively, you are precisely proper, the significance is, is that the worldwide group must be in there to not solely assist preserve the nation protected, however to – however to assist us be – allow our group, different organizations, to have the ability to transfer the grains round and transfer meals round generally.
The thought in – in Haiti, which is such a lush tropical island, however additionally it is affected by local weather change, it is also affected by — by, you understand, by land use. I feel the world group has taken a step ahead and form of forgotten Haiti just a little bit.
So — so my job, having returned from Haiti, is to remind the world that Haiti remains to be there, is — nonetheless wants our assist, it nonetheless wants meals, it nonetheless wants safety, and it wants to have the ability to prosper in a means in order that they do not lose a era of youngsters.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Broadly talking, excessive climate is an element that is affecting crops and migration. You have mentioned local weather change is influencing the conditions in quite a few the examples you simply gave. The place are you seeing it influence probably the most?
CINDY MCCAIN: Effectively, one of many locations is the Sahel. I imply the — for those who may see what’s down there and see the influence that the – that local weather change has had on it. So what we’re — what we’re doing close to the Sahel and different areas, significantly in Africa, is water administration, educating historical methods, that are quite simple to do, and local weather change, not simply in Africa or the Sahel, local weather change is worldwide. And we’ll be seeing. , we’re having to handle crops now which are – they need to be extra resilient to drought. Our animal feed and issues need to be extra resilient so the animals may be extra immune to drought. There’s plenty of issues at stake right here. And I feel when folks discuss local weather change, and – and people naysayers that suppose local weather change is not actual, I might prefer to take them to the Sahel and present them what’s actual.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Cindy McCain, on the United Nations, thanks.
CINDY MCCAIN: Thanks.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That is it for us right this moment.
Thanks all for watching.
Till subsequent week, or FACE THE NATION, I am Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
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